Pocket screws vs. dowels in face frames - which is actually stronger?

I built two identical face frames last month. One with pocket screws, one with dowels. Same wood, same glue. The pocket screw frame took me about 45 minutes. The dowel frame took over 2 hours with all the measuring and drilling. But here's the thing. I clamped both frames and tried to twist them apart. The dowel frame held way better. No flex at all. The pocket screw frame popped apart at one joint after some pressure. Does anyone else think dowels are worth the extra time for face frames, or am I just using cheap pocket screws?

3 comments

3 Comments

kevin_dixon2mo ago

That old Fine Woodworking article from a few years back tested this exact thing and their numbers matched what you found. They ran joint strength tests and dowels came out significantly stronger in shear and twist tests. I read somewhere that the reason is the long grain to long grain glue surface you get with a proper dowel joint. Pocket screws rely on just the screw threads and the glue on that small area. Your test sounds pretty solid to me. For face frames where you might hang cabinet doors that get opened and closed thousands of times, I think the extra hour is time well spent. You might try better pocket screws and a clamp, but I doubt it would ever match a good dowel joint.

the_max1mo ago

Totally agree on the long grain glue surface being the difference. I switched to a Dowl-it jig a few years ago and it cut setup time down to about 10 minutes once I got the hang of it. The self centering ones are finicky but a good jig with adjustable stops makes it a lot faster and more consistent. I've used those spiral groove dowels and they do seem to hold better in plywood where glue can soak in unevenly. For face frames on cabinets that see a lot of use, the extra few minutes per joint is worth it.

thomas2752mo ago

So @kevin_dixon, what kind of jig do you use for your dowels? I'm asking because I tried a cheap self-centering one and it was a pain to keep everything square. The results were good when I got it right, but man it took forever to set up. I'm wondering if a nicer doweling jig makes a big difference in speed or if it's just a chore no matter what you use. Also have you tried those new glue-in dowels with the spiral grooves? I heard they grab better but I haven't tested them myself.